User talk:Abbasulu
Contents
db-copyright
I tagged List of Malayalam songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas, and several other articles you contributed here, with {{db-copyright}}, because they showed signs of being cut and pasted directly from the Wikipedia.
You removed that tag, with the edit summary "There is no copyright infringement in this article. All sources are collected from various news articles and websites that are up for being used in public domains."
That is the wrong counter-argument.
I did a web search, for "is an Indian playback singer who has sung over 9,000 songs" [1]. It confirmed that you copied and pasted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Hindi_songs_recorded_by_K._J._Yesudas
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Hindi_songs_recorded_by_K._J._Yesudas&action=history&offset=&limit=500 confirms you were the primary contributor to the Wikipedia version.
https://xtools.wmcloud.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/List_of_Hindi_songs_recorded_by_K._J._Yesudas shows half a dozen other contributors edited that article.
Now, if all of the edits made by those other individuals were genuinely trivial edits, or were edits only to the article's metadata, then it is not legally necessary to place the {{wp-cca}} template at the top of the article. You are allowed to port material to wikialpha, that you wrote elsewhere, when you are the sole author of that material's intellectual content. I've done this hundreds of times. Sometimes, when I port an article I originally contributed to the Wikipedia, I go back to the last version for which I can claim sole authorship, rather than port the very latest portion.
If other contributors did genuinely add new intellectual content there is a legal requirement for the {{wp-cca}} template at the top of the article, AND a list of all the userids of the Wikipedia contributors has to be available. We put that list in a subsection of the talk page.
But, when I port articles I wrote, from the Wikipedia, to Wikialpha, I always explicitly assert, on the article's talk page, "I believe I was the sole author of the intellectual content of the material ported to this wiki".
In the case of your articles, an independent third party, (me), has to go to a lot of work to confirm this is not the copyright violation of Wikipedia contributors it looks like, on the surface...
Please follow my example, when porting material where you believe you are the sole author of the intellectual content of a Wikipedia article. Geo Swan (talk) 13:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
Ok, I'm doing that. Abbasulu (talk) 17:00, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
I am not happy you ignored my advice
Let me be more blunt.
If you port material you originally drafted on the Wikipedia, it is, in my opinion, essential that this provenance be acknowledged. Period.
If you port material from the Wikipedia, even if you were the primary author of that material, if other people made even a small intellectual contribution, you have to list all the Wikipedia contributors on the talk page - otherwise you are violating the intellectual property rights of those individuals.
If you port material from the Wikipedia, if you were the sole author of that material's intellectual content, you don't have to acknowledge the efforts of people who made minor spelling corrections, or only edited the metadata. However, since the signs an article was first drafted on the Wikipedia are unignorable, I think it is still essential you acknowledge the Wikipedia provenance, if only to assert, for anyone who checks, that you were the sole author, there.
I came across your two big articles, again, today, and I had to reconfirm that you seem to have been the sole author over at the Wikipedia. Don't make me keep doing this! Geo Swan (talk) 19:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
- All the edits of these article actually had only my contributions. And since the wikipedia article is deleted already, I can't find out the edit history (and contributors list) of that version. Abbasulu (talk) 19:07, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
- Then, you go to the
Talk:page of each article, and you leave a note, saying that.
- Then, you go to the
- I told you that if you went to my user contributions you would see hundreds of examples of me explicitly acknowledging that the wikialpha article was copied from a Wikipedia version, and asserting that I believed I was the sole author of the intellectual content of what I copied, so the {{wp-cca}} template was not necessary.
- Maybe those articles have been deleted now, but they had not been deleted when I wrote to you, and you ignored my advice.
- Looking at your talk page contributions shows you still have not gone and left an explanation on the
Talk:page of every article you started on the Wikipedia, and ported here, leaving a note explaining that, although that material was first drafted on the Wikipedia, you were the sole author there, so no attribution to the Wikipedia is required.
- Looking at your talk page contributions shows you still have not gone and left an explanation on the
- This should be on the talk page of every article you ported... specifically Talk:List of Malayalam songs recorded by Vani Jairam, List of Malayalam songs recorded by P. Susheela, List of Malayalam songs recorded by S. Janaki, and Talk:List of Malayalam songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas. Geo Swan (talk) 14:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for creating Talk:List of Malayalam songs recorded by P. Susheela, Talk:List of Malayalam songs recorded by K. J. Yesudas and Talk:List_of_Malayalam_songs_recorded_by_S._Janaki. Geo Swan (talk) 00:58, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Final warning
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Most of your contributions here are copyright violations. Wikipedia material may be ported here -- provided you honour the intellectual property rights of the original Wikipedia contributors. They surrendered most of their intellectual property rights, when they clicked "save". They retain the right to be credited. Wikimedia Foundation (WMF) lawyers recommended that merely listing their Wikipedia user IDs was sufficient. Wikialpha expects you to list those user IDs in an appropriately named section of the article's talk page. You didn't do that. That makes the articles you ported copyright violations. You have one week to bring them into compliance, or they will be deleted. They articles will be tagged with {{db-copyright}} templates and with __NOINDEX__ on them. That directive, in theory, tells the search engines of Google and Bing to ignore that page, and not list it in search results. If you port one more Wikipedia article, without honouring the contributor's IP rights, then you will be blocked. In addition to crediting the original contributors, please remove calls to templates that aren't supported here. Please remove or port all images the article used. If the Wikipedia version uses images that are larger than the 2 MB image limit here, upload a smaller version. |
WritingSnowman (talk) 14:53, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
compliant copying of wikipedia material
I left a note on Talk:Shakila Zafar#compliant copying of wikipedia material where I explained how I brought the Shakila Zafar article into compliance.
Abbasulu, do you think you could bring any other articles you ported, for which you do not think you could claim sole authorship, into compliance?
The Wikipedia article had close to 200 edits. And I copied that history to Talk:Shakila Zafar#wikipedia revision history. It is not actually necessary to faithfully copy the entire revision history. The intellectual property rights lawyers the WMF hired to advise on this issue concluded it was merely necessary to list the names of every contributor.
And, as I wrote on Talk:Shakila Zafar, in my opinion, stated in hundreds of places here on wikialpha, and elsewhere:
- edits to metadata are not copyrightable,
- spelling corrections, changes to punctuation, changes to capitalization, are not copyrightable,
- minor changes to word order are not copyrightable
There is a legal concept, de minimis, that means minor changes to intellectual content don't rise to the level where are a person gets to claim copyright. What the level of creativity that rises to the level of being copyrightable is, is routinely argued about in court. If you look at commentaries on the cases of songs, where the songwriter has to give credit, and royalties, to the writer of a similar song, that is a madhouse.
If another contributor contributes just one full sentence to an article I wrote, I am not prepared to claim I was the sole author. But, if they merely rewrote PART of a sentence I wrote, I am generally prepared to assert I remained the sole author, on the grounds rewriting a part of one sentence does not rise to de minimis.
I hope this helps. Geo Swan (talk) 16:45, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
Ping User:WritingSnowman...
- Please tell me how to port the edit history of wikipedia article to wikialpha Talk page? Abbasulu (talk) 17:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
- Unfortunately an automatic mechanism wikialpha used to have no longer works, because the guy who maintained it left the project.
- So I still do what that robot used to do:
- I go to the Wikipedia article...
- I click the
Historytab... - Then I use my mouse to manually cut and paste that history into a subsection on the talk page of the wikialpha page...
- Then I do something that some may say is not necessary, I manually reformat the listing I just cut and paste, putting a newline before every
curprevthe thing that begins every line. Inserting a<br>would also work... - Alternatively, you could look at what you just pasted, and manually type in the user-ids. Legally, it is just the user-ids that are required, according to WMF lawyers. And, of course, they only need to be listed once
- When I port an article, and I was the first contributor, but someone else, or multiple other people made contributions, sometimes I take steps so that I only port material I wrote, like this:
- I cut and paste the last version for which I think I can claim I was the sole contributor of intellectual content, and save that...
- Then I go to the Wikipedia revisions of later contributions I made, and copy just the new parts I added, and paste them in...
- Often the reason I do this is that I don't like the contribution(s) made by the other guy(s)...
- But, if I think they did have a point, I will take the references they used, and write a brand new paragraph of my own, replacing theirs. In that way I can still claim I was the sole author of the article's intellectual content. Copying their references is okay, as references are not copyrightable, as per Feist v. Rural.
- Feist v. Rural was a key ruling of the US Supreme Court. It says lists of facts are not, normally, copyrightable. Other countries, like Australia, take the opposite view. In Australia a compiler of facts can claim their list of facts has copyright, due to how much work they put into it - the "sweat of the brow" theory of copyright. But, under US law, for a list of facts to be copyrightable, there has to be a creative element to how it is organized. So, if someone published a list of facts about Valentine's Day, and the organized it so that when you looked at the list, it was shaped like a Valentine, that particular rendering would be protected by copyright. But anyone could take that list, and reorganize, alphabetically perhaps, and that version would not be protected by copyright.
- I am sorry I can't tell you an easier way to do this. If I write a tool to aid in doing this I'll let you know.
- If you look at an article, and realize that figuring out how to record all the Wikipedia contributors is more work than you want to put into the article, you have the option of adding a {{db-copyright}} or {{db-requested}} tag.
- Ok, should I just add a {{db-copyright}} or {{db-requested}} tag at the beginning of a new article which has contributions in wikipedia article and thats's all? Abbasulu (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
- Hmmm. I may have confused you. Sorry.
- {{Db-copyright}} and {{db-requested}} are deletion tags, as described in Wikialpha:CSD. You would place {{db-requested}} on an article you started, and subsequently changed your mind about, and wanted to request be deleted. You would use {{db-copyright}} if you ported an article, and then decided that it was just too much work to document the full list of Wikipedia contributors.
- Articles you port, and want to keep, require a {{wp-cca}} at the top, and they require a list of all the Wikipedia contributors in a section on their talk page.
- I haven't checked every single article you have ported, but I think you are now porting compliant to our license requirements. So, thanks for that! Cheers! Geo Swan (talk) 00:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, I try to add article history to It's talk page after getting warning about copyright infringements. Abbasulu (talk) 05:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- You are still, eventually, either listing all the wikipedia contributors, or putting an assertion you were the sole author of the intellectual content, on articles you port from the wikipedia, right?
- Thanks for doing that!
WIKIALPHA INFO NEEDED!
Hi, who are administrators here, who is the man?
How do we transfer wikipedoia/wikipeedia/wikipeedoia stuff here?
http://xahlee.info/w/do_not_donate_to_Wikipedia.html
I don't know about wikipedoia or wokipeedia. I'm hearing these names for the first time. I collect infos from newspaper articles, trivia websites and full movie video from youtube that shows singer and actor's names in the beginning. Abbasulu (talk) 02:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
What is contact for this place?
You should check out my George Reeves/Paul Bern collection.. they both were "fixed" by MGM fixers Eddie Mannix, Howard Strickland and few others 27 years apart and both lived in Benedict Canyon.
